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Post by scania on Jan 6, 2015 0:01:43 GMT
Hi Guys, I am still doing ground preparation work for to go beyond my A2 License and maybe go for an A license, maybe this summer coming or even the following summer. I would like to get opinions on the Bandit 600 vs the 1996 Honda CB750 F2 vs the Honda CB750 Nighthawk. I prefer the look of the 1996 Honda CB750 roadster as it has rear springs and is a bit more classic looking. I think the 1996 Roadster and the Nighthawk use the same engine except that the Nighthawk has a lower seat and is a bit more American looking but the Roadster looks better, but I am not sure if they are actually the exact same engine.
All are air/ coil cooled so neither has a water pump etc. I have heard great reports of the Bandit here from Fungo etc, but I forgot to ask for a comparison. In particular would there be much difference in the build quality and reliability between the Hondas verses the Suzuk Bandit i?
www.bing.com/images/search?q=honda+cb750+1996&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=28D1F8DD3CB1C1302D8DA3F35A81482492C758B6&selectedIndex=23
www.bing.com/images/search?q=honda+cb750+1996&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=8FA15E045E8D03694ABCEF085B862468A0B0056F&selectedIndex=38
Everyone knows what a bandit looks like so I didn't bother with a picture link for it.
I would really appreciate plenty of feedback on this thread because the info will form the basis of which bike I will purchase.
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Post by caprinix1959 on Jan 6, 2015 2:23:46 GMT
I have never had a 600 Bandit but had a 1200for a few months,the acceleration and brute power was EPIC,the brakes were good but the handling in high speed bends left a lot to be desired. I was lucky my bandit had not seen much bad weather so was really tidy but I have seen some pretty rotten bandit frames on my travels,bandit owning friends moan about the mild steel collector between the stainless headers and the stainless link pipe to the silencer dissolving rather quickly.This is not cheap to fix as SUZUKI ONLY SELL A MUCH LARGER SECTION ,there is a service advertising on eBay where you send your exhaust off and they jig it up and weld in a new stainless collector,this costs around £100. Bandits are one of the best bargains out there although finding a straight,unmolested or uncrashed one is not easy. I replaced the bandit with a CB750F2N,actually a bike I have owned before ,sold and regretted selling almost straight away. It is old (L reg) shows 50,000+ and has been rather badly treated (left in a metal bike safe covered in salt for 2 years).When I fetched it back I could not believe my friend had abused her so badly and at first I was dubious whether it was even worth buying back. But a fresh battery,fuel,clean plugs and a whif of easy start any she ran up straight away sounding very loud thru the rotten motad exhaust. It is a testament to Hondas build quality that the bike has cleaned up remarkably well. I love the handling of these bikes,comfortable and docile round town but with a potential 140mph performance if required and even on its basic economy suspension it feels more inspiring than the big old bandit. I love these bikes and have had 2 of them ,3 if you include meeting this one for the second time. the only issue with them is the hydraulic tappets which seem to lose pressure and rattle quite loudly,apart from the noise (and the embarrassment because of the noise) it does not seem to affect how the bike performs but it can take away some of the pleasure derived from these awesome bikes as you are wondering if something may go wrong. All I would add to these bikes is a fly screen to make 80+mph cruising more bearable. The low ish seat (vital for 5'5" tall me!)wide bars,good mirrors and comfortable pillion seat make these bikes the best all rounders I have ever owned. The engine is derived from the CBX750 model which,i have been told, has been fitted with "softer" camshafts to lower the overall power while still supplying plenty of torque. I have not ridden a Nighthawk so cant tell you anything about them,I do believe they have same spec engine as the F2N so you wont go far wrong there. On a purely cosmetic front I think the F2N is the best looking of the three on your list,especially with a shiny new stanless motad instead of the horrendously expensive 4-2 factory system.
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Post by Cheggy on Jan 6, 2015 3:53:42 GMT
Simple answer is Hondas build quality is unsurpassed but many Hondas are also quite boring to ride. Build quality is not quite as good on the bandit but the engine is bulletproof and it's a hoot to ride.... It's not called a hooligan for nothing Go for the bandit if you want the slightest hint of fun.
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Post by scania on Jan 6, 2015 4:41:00 GMT
I have never had a 600 Bandit but had a 1200for a few months,the acceleration and brute power was EPIC,the brakes were good but the handling in high speed bends left a lot to be desired. I was lucky my bandit had not seen much bad weather so was really tidy but I have seen some pretty rotten bandit frames on my travels,bandit owning friends moan about the mild steel collector between the stainless headers and the stainless link pipe to the silencer dissolving rather quickly.This is not cheap to fix as SUZUKI ONLY SELL A MUCH LARGER SECTION ,there is a service advertising on eBay where you send your exhaust off and they jig it up and weld in a new stainless collector,this costs around £100. Bandits are one of the best bargains out there although finding a straight,unmolested or uncrashed one is not easy. I replaced the bandit with a CB750F2N,actually a bike I have owned before ,sold and regretted selling almost straight away. It is old (L reg) shows 50,000+ and has been rather badly treated (left in a metal bike safe covered in salt for 2 years).When I fetched it back I could not believe my friend had abused her so badly and at first I was dubious whether it was even worth buying back. But a fresh battery,fuel,clean plugs and a whif of easy start any she ran up straight away sounding very loud thru the rotten motad exhaust. It is a testament to Hondas build quality that the bike has cleaned up remarkably well. I love the handling of these bikes,comfortable and docile round town but with a potential 140mph performance if required and even on its basic economy suspension it feels more inspiring than the big old bandit. I love these bikes and have had 2 of them ,3 if you include meeting this one for the second time. the only issue with them is the hydraulic tappets which seem to lose pressure and rattle quite loudly,apart from the noise (and the embarrassment because of the noise) it does not seem to affect how the bike performs but it can take away some of the pleasure derived from these awesome bikes as you are wondering if something may go wrong. All I would add to these bikes is a fly screen to make 80+mph cruising more bearable. The low ish seat (vital for 5'5" tall me!)wide bars,good mirrors and comfortable pillion seat make these bikes the best all rounders I have ever owned. The engine is derived from the CBX750 model which,i have been told, has been fitted with "softer" camshafts to lower the overall power while still supplying plenty of torque. I have not ridden a Nighthawk so cant tell you anything about them,I do believe they have same spec engine as the F2N so you wont go far wrong there. On a purely cosmetic front I think the F2N is the best looking of the three on your list,especially with a shiny new stanless motad instead of the horrendously expensive 4-2 factory system. That's some reply Caprinix, thanks for the detail. You deserve a rest from typing. If you get a chance sometime could you tell me, when the hydraulic tappets get noisy on the Honda CB750F2N, do thy fail soon afterwards or do they keep going for years noisy and all? Also is it expensive to get the tappets redone?
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Post by Cheggy on Jan 6, 2015 6:11:50 GMT
Something to bear in mind, bikes are like shoes, you won't know if they fit unless you try them and what suits one person won't suit the next.
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Post by Harold on Jan 6, 2015 9:00:56 GMT
I don't think the Nighthawk was ever released here so you may find it hard to get one. I think Cheggy makes a good point when he say's about different bikes suiting different people, my advise would be try before you buy. I can't comment on the bikes in question as I have never ridden any of them but the Bandit started a whole genre of naked bikes and gets great reviews, the CB750 is probably seen as the tamer of the two but any bike capable of 140 MPH should be enough to keep most people entertained especially if you are new to big bikes.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 10:25:51 GMT
Scania, I have never owned the Honda(s) you mention but I'd agree with a lot of what has been said by Nix etc. Personally I love the MK1 and MK2 Bandits - the fact that they have a renowned engine and to me, they look fantastic in naked guise - never was a fan of the GSF600S's looks, though....
Mine have been mere toys and not real life working bikes. My first one (black MK1 1998) had only covered 4k miles when I sold her around 2002/3 and this current one has not even reached 5700 miles as yet.....so they have lead a very sheltered existence.
I have heard about the exhaust issue that Nix has mentioned but the fact that there is a cheapish fix out there to address the issue should not put you off. Also, I don't think the build quality on a Bandit was as superior as any Honda but, again, mine is fine due to its pampered life.
I honestly think Honda missed a trick where the Bandit was concerned. Their competitor, the Honda CB600 Hornet was a decent bike but never for me - basic things like not having a centre stand etc. And Yamaha's attempt, the XJ600S Divvy & N - I actually owned two 600N's and they tried, but came nowhere close to a Suzuki Bandit. I had one of the very last of the XJ600N, Silver one on an 03 plate....but I only bought that because at the time, I could not afford a Bandit again. I stole that bike at £1400 in 2007 - only 1500 on the clocks and from the original owner!!!!!
I've often said it, I truly believe the Bandit took the crown of bikes like the Superdream etc in the 1990's. Different league/cc/class of bike but still 'the Ford Escort of bikes' if you like.
Finally, I find the comfort and performance on Bandits (600 never owned a 12) very good and decent MK2's are still out there......but you have to look. I ended up getting mine from Northern Ireland after a six month search for the right bike. But I've seen some very nice ones lately in England, around 2002-2004 reg but they still fetch around 1700 to 2k for a really nice condition one with lowish miles.
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Post by davefirestorm on Jan 6, 2015 10:32:01 GMT
Have ridden both 600 and 1200 Bandits liked both they're great bikes 1200 a great all round big bike.Never ridden an F2 but considered one when I got back into bikes in mid nineties but apart from it having Honda build quality it was quickly dismissed,I owned a 650 Nighthawk( a DOHC)and I regret selling it to my brother a great bike and as stated not a UK model so some nice imports from States,I'd go for a Nighthawk but steer clear of the UK spec bike.They are all great bikes and will be down to personal choice in the end
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 10:42:42 GMT
Bandit. Generally when a bike sells well people smarter than us have done all the hard work in selecting the best option. Choose where you want to drop in- everything from cheap as chips to real minters, but you can pick up some really nice ones for not a lot. Good spares availability. And after a year you want to move it on they are always in demand.....
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Post by Harold on Jan 6, 2015 16:27:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 17:51:23 GMT
Very early one - nice to see the original silencer still on it.
1995 - one of the first. Note no pillion grab handles protruding out of the seat panels on each side and the satin look air filter covers - later models were chrome.
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Post by caprinix1959 on Jan 6, 2015 18:30:14 GMT
I have never had a 600 Bandit but had a 1200for a few months,the acceleration and brute power was EPIC,the brakes were good but the handling in high speed bends left a lot to be desired. I was lucky my bandit had not seen much bad weather so was really tidy but I have seen some pretty rotten bandit frames on my travels,bandit owning friends moan about the mild steel collector between the stainless headers and the stainless link pipe to the silencer dissolving rather quickly.This is not cheap to fix as SUZUKI ONLY SELL A MUCH LARGER SECTION ,there is a service advertising on eBay where you send your exhaust off and they jig it up and weld in a new stainless collector,this costs around £100. Bandits are one of the best bargains out there although finding a straight,unmolested or uncrashed one is not easy. I replaced the bandit with a CB750F2N,actually a bike I have owned before ,sold and regretted selling almost straight away. It is old (L reg) shows 50,000+ and has been rather badly treated (left in a metal bike safe covered in salt for 2 years).When I fetched it back I could not believe my friend had abused her so badly and at first I was dubious whether it was even worth buying back. But a fresh battery,fuel,clean plugs and a whif of easy start any she ran up straight away sounding very loud thru the rotten motad exhaust. It is a testament to Hondas build quality that the bike has cleaned up remarkably well. I love the handling of these bikes,comfortable and docile round town but with a potential 140mph performance if required and even on its basic economy suspension it feels more inspiring than the big old bandit. I love these bikes and have had 2 of them ,3 if you include meeting this one for the second time. the only issue with them is the hydraulic tappets which seem to lose pressure and rattle quite loudly,apart from the noise (and the embarrassment because of the noise) it does not seem to affect how the bike performs but it can take away some of the pleasure derived from these awesome bikes as you are wondering if something may go wrong. All I would add to these bikes is a fly screen to make 80+mph cruising more bearable. The low ish seat (vital for 5'5" tall me!)wide bars,good mirrors and comfortable pillion seat make these bikes the best all rounders I have ever owned. The engine is derived from the CBX750 model which,i have been told, has been fitted with "softer" camshafts to lower the overall power while still supplying plenty of torque. I have not ridden a Nighthawk so cant tell you anything about them,I do believe they have same spec engine as the F2N so you wont go far wrong there. On a purely cosmetic front I think the F2N is the best looking of the three on your list,especially with a shiny new stanless motad instead of the horrendously expensive 4-2 factory system. That's some reply Caprinix, thanks for the detail. You deserve a rest from typing. If you get a chance sometime could you tell me, when the hydraulic tappets get noisy on the Honda CB750F2N, do thy fail soon afterwards or do they keep going for years noisy and all? Also is it expensive to get the tappets redone? Hi Scania,I have never had the tappets actually"fail",they just made a bloody horrible noise! I guess the performance must be affected but not so as I noticed. I bought my first F2N from the local bike shop and noticed the slightly tappety engine and commented on it,within weeks it had got louder and I was worried. The shop ,Manhatten MC in Sheffield were brilliant and we came to a compromise that they would supply a complete used cylinder head,with cams,alves ,tappets-everything so whatever the problem was it would be solved,they supplied the parts FOC but I had to buy the gaskets and pay for the labour,after a discussion they agreed to let me do the work with the help of my mate Alan who happens to be the technical guy in the UK for Aprilia and their attached makes . Job was done,including a new timing chain just because it seemed daft not to fit one while the head was off and the bike was epic for years,I only sold it because I was offered a 7 year newer identical bike with very low miles for very little money.The second bike was never quite as nice to ride and after about 4 years the dreaded tapping started on that one as well. I sold it on to a custom bike builder who "chopped" it. If you have to replace all 16 tappets it can be an expensive do,I think they are £15 each!!! do the maths,factor in an oil change and possibly a few gaskets and you are looking at the thick end of £300,then if you cant do the work yourself there is maybe 3 hours labour,although it is fairly straight forward to just replace the tappets but involves a lot of careful dismantling. Although I love F2Ns I think a 600 Bandit might be the way to go after reading other comments,take some time to find the right one and you will be laughing- LITERALLY! One final thing having said that,I will probably buying something a bit more sedate for the long distance stuff at the end of this year so my 750 will probably be coming up for sale around this time next year if you happen to still be looking! Cheers Nix
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 23:21:51 GMT
All said and done, no matter how much someone recommends a bike, it is down to you - there are not many bad bikes......all of them have their fans. I like the MK1/2 Bandit because I think it is a great modern twist on older styling - I like the way the engine looks as well. But it's not everyone's cup of tea. For a start, a lot of riders looking for a modern classic may be put off by the idea of a mono shock rather than twin (traditional) type rear shockers as just one example. If Honda had officially imported these to the UK I would definitely have had one.....maybe over the Bandit. This is a great looking bike (with a very good reputation) in my opinion:
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Post by scania on Jan 8, 2015 0:16:19 GMT
All said and done, no matter how much someone recommends a bike, it is down to you - there are not many bad bikes......all of them have their fans. I like the MK1/2 Bandit because I think it is a great modern twist on older styling - I like the way the engine looks as well. But it's not everyone's cup of tea. For a start, a lot of riders looking for a modern classic may be put off by the idea of a mono shock rather than twin (traditional) type rear shockers as just one example. If Honda had officially imported these to the UK I would definitely have had one.....maybe over the Bandit. This is a great looking bike (with a very good reputation) in my opinion: Very interesting post as you have hit a few things which have been in my mind a lot in recent years. Although I think the Honda CB400 Superfour is the nicest looking modern bike ever built it is my second favourite bike over all of all bikes after my favourite the Superdreams because I prefer the simplicity of a twin cylinder air cooled over the complexity of a 4 cylinder (4 carb) water cooled. I often wondered would it be possible to fit a twin cylinder air cooled into the chassis of a Superfour, although I would be reluctant to break a SD as I thank the SDs are sacred! Dublin was flooded with Japanese Grey imported cb400 Superfours from about the year 1996 onwards to about 2005. There are still a lot of them going around and they are cheap, but many were used by couriers and some were crashed and abused, but they have a great rep for reliability here especially their engine. The problem for me is that for to do the A cat test with the Irish RSA I must have a bike of a minimum 595 cc, so the CB400SF is out for that purpose. There is a CB1000 Superfour known as the BIG ONE but my current A2 licence does not allow me to ride it for to build up practice even if I restricted it because of the stupid EU rules. It is funny that you mentioned about the Bandit not having rear springs, in fact that is my only problem with the Bandit 600. Rear springs are a must for me on any bike, The first thing I look at on a bike is the rear springs and the back cowl, if I don't see the classic two springs (preferably chromed) and a bulky cowl, then I walk past the bike! I cringe at the sight of a wasps arse spiky cowl on any bike. I even though about fitting two (even fake) rear springs to a Bandit if I ever get a Bandit (I wonder could this be done easily). The Bandit 600 certainly fits the regulations perfectly for me in that my A2 licence covers it if I restrict it, then I could build up practice on it and the day of test just remove the restrictor in front of the tester. That way I would be completely within the law all the time. I also noticed that concept too, that the Bandit 600 is an interesting twist on a classic look, their engine is really beautiful looking and is the heart of the machine.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 10:45:59 GMT
The ER500 has rear springs but this is not for you either if you have to have a minimum of 595cc.
Guessing the CB750F2N maybe your best option.....that's if you can find a nice one. I think they were made from around 1992-2000. Or perhaps a 750 Zephyr but I have not seen a nice one of those for some time. When they are nice, they are not that cheap.
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