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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 19:36:27 GMT
That short pipe comes off the carb breather - it is right under the seat of the carb end fire and does seem to be what the recall suggested - that vapour can come out of it. But still not getting how it would reach the fuel pump breather pipe.
I just don't want this to happen again hence the need to be thorough and fully understand - and try and put extra safe guards in place.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 19:40:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 19:42:40 GMT
As a further bit of info, working from the left, carb bowl three is quite blackened - the others are not. Correct me if wrong, but the fuel / vapor would have run though that carb to get out of the breather?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 19:51:40 GMT
I'm thinking now is that the pump ignited the fuel and sent it up to the carbs out of that pipe and also out of the breather to the fairing. Yep , that's how I ssee it .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 19:55:34 GMT
Fuel pump I have got a new one but of the same ilk (genuine item - it's a Mitsubishi made part). Do you think the pump was responsible for the whole incident on its own?
Still not getting how a longer f.p breather pipe would have solved all this as Honda suggested on their recall. Is it more likely that air gets sucked up the f.p breather to vaporize everything - then ignited by the contacts in the pump?
These bike's don't catch fire every day. Furthermore, do you think the carbs are damaged now internally?
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Post by bodie on Dec 20, 2017 20:12:46 GMT
The carbs want taking of and all the union and o rings need changing any way Nick even if there had been no fire my mate Paul has just done his this summer as he had massive petrol leak and his has 4000 miles And 20 years old and mine is 20 in Jan so I will be doing them aswell the o rings joining the carbs are know for failing on blades of this age so your 600 won't be any different
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 20:21:43 GMT
Bear in mind Nick I've no specific knowledge of the CBR or their fires just kicking around ideas . TBH I'm surprised the pump still has points , you'd think they'd be electronic by then/now ? I don't see the pump itself being the culprit but like many "accidents" just one part of a chain of events that come together to produce an "incident" . I'd thought that the two breathers were sharing the same sort of area and so the longer breather pipe was to keep the two apart from each other ? I'm assuming the pump breather is a low pressure and the carb breather could supply an inflammable mixture which if adjacent within the bellypan could be sucked up into the points area . If that is the case I'd look at raising the pump breather to a clear area under the tank etc where petrol fumes would not gather ? I don't even know for sure if the pump breather does produce a vacuum - maybe a test with a small amount of water in a jar - bubbles or the level goes down ?! But you'd think the problem would be more common . A non OE solution could be an electronic fuel pump- no points no extrenal ignition source ?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 20:22:16 GMT
The carbs want taking of and all the union and o rings need changing any way Nick even if there had been no fire my mate Paul has just done his this summer as he had massive petrol leak and his has 4000 miles And 20 years old and mine is 20 in Jan so I will be doing them aswell the o rings joining the carbs are know for failing on blades of this age so your 600 won't be any different Good advice mate. Pic courtesy of ebay Germany. There are two of those breather pipes.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 20:26:06 GMT
If nothing else I suppose a longer FP breather makes it less likely to "suck fumes" right up a length of pipe - ie the pressure is likely fluctuating , just like a crankcase breather . If you have a short pipe the short term vacuum can suck rubbish/water all the way in but a longer pipe overcomes this and after the vacuum recedes the rubbish/water drops down again . Conjecture . Email HMC ? though with an eye on litigation probably not very fruitful.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 20:29:26 GMT
Bear in mind Nick I've no specific knowledge of the CBR or their fires just kicking around ideas . TBH I'm surprised the pump still has points , you'd think they'd be electronic by then/now ? I don't see the pump itself being the culprit but like many "accidents" just one part of a chain of events that come together to produce an "incident" . I'd thought that the two breathers were sharing the same sort of area and so the longer breather pipe was to keep the two apart from each other ? I'm assuming the pump breather is a low pressure and the carb breather could supply an inflammable mixture which if adjacent within the bellypan could be sucked up into the points area . If that is the case I'd look at raising the pump breather to a clear area under the tank etc where petrol fumes would not gather ? I don't even know for sure if the pump breather does produce a vacuum - maybe a test with a small amount of water in a jar - bubbles or the level goes down ?! But you'd think the problem would be more common . A non OE solution could be an electronic fuel pump- no points no extrenal ignition source ? Hmmm.......I'd do anything to have the peace of mind of this not occurring again - even if it goes against my 'originality' obsession. After all, what is the point of having a burned out bike with genuine parts on it? Will look into this, Boje. Problem is, how would I know if the pump would not contain points?
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Post by bodie on Dec 20, 2017 20:31:03 GMT
Them carbs look a very similar set up to our blades and on Pauls even the air unions had gone brittle
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 20:31:47 GMT
If nothing else I suppose a longer FP breather makes it less likely to "suck fumes" right up a length of pipe - ie the pressure is likely fluctuating , just like a crankcase breather . If you have a short pipe the short term vacuum can suck rubbish/water all the way in but a longer pipe overcomes this and after the vacuum recedes the rubbish/water drops down again . Conjecture . Email HMC ? though with an eye on litigation probably not very fruitful. Rang them a week after it happened to see if any info available on the recall or other issues with this model. No records now on something that old and simply not interested. Ironically, the records were probably burned some time ago.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 20:51:08 GMT
Really want to get this bike on the road to being nice again. Thank heavens for ebay, these good used parts are coming in cheap. By the way guys, I really appreciate all your advice and help so far even though I know that you are not familiar with the model. But this is what it's all about - brainstorming.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2017 20:37:41 GMT
Wired for sound? It's like spaghetti junction 'ere tonight.
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Post by Somersetdreamer on Dec 23, 2017 20:47:14 GMT
Wired for sound? It's like spaghetti junction 'ere tonight.
You better stay off the shandy tonight Nick
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