daveh
Full Member
Posts: 349
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Post by daveh on Nov 9, 2023 14:52:08 GMT
Sorry, The 'quote' ap did not seem to work. I wrote...
Pete, Were the 17HP just for the German market then? What was the reason for that was it German legislation?
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Post by BritPete on Nov 9, 2023 17:04:45 GMT
Your correct the CB250N was produced as both a 17hp and 27hp for the German Market, when the CB250NA was released the 17hp version was discontinued, the versions are easily identifiable, the 27hp engine numbers start CB250NE-2…. the 17hp ones start CB250NE-3…. The reverse Comstar wheels make yours an CB250NB model. The German models had a number of specific differences to the rest of Europe, 1-The front wheel nut had a rubber cover on it which I can see in the photos 2-The trip reset knob on the Speedo has a big rubber cover on it 3-The indicator relay was a 3 wire one unlike the rest of Europe which had a 2 wire one 4-On the 400s the handle bars were higher than the UK ones so if replacing things like the throttle cables I would advise you check the lengths etc before purchase A few years back I bought a 400 from Germany and shipped it back to the UK I have to say that many members of the forum have used purchased parts from Germany and a few of us whole bikes, in General they are in much better condition that the UK ones Good luck with the restoration, I look forward to following it Pete, Were the 17HP just for the German market then? What was the reason for that was it German legislation? At the time, not sure if it is still the same, insurance etc was done on BHP not engine size The only difference in the high and low power engines is the profile of the cam shaft, the low power camshaft is identified by a G stamped on the flange Yes just German market
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Post by stefanb on Nov 10, 2023 5:05:28 GMT
Pete, that's right. Until the end of the 1980s, manufacturers in Germany voluntarily limited their performance. As you said, this had less to do with the engine capacity and more to do with the relatively high insurance premiums. There were performance classes of 17 HP, 27 HP, up to 50 HP and over 50 HP. At 100 hp it was over. However, increasingly fewer and fewer adhered to it. At first, the machines “spread up” their performance or the manufacturers’ throttling was easy to circumvent. For example, my Kawasaki ZXR 750 R (H1) from 1989 was only throttled to 100 hp via additional bars in the carburator that limited the travel of the sliders. My dealer delivered it with the original covers and then "illegal" 114 HP. The CB 250 with 17 hp was just very slow. A little better with 27 hp, but the majority of people preferred the 400 with 27 hp. In this respect, a CB 250N with 27 hp is rather rare in Germany. At the time, not sure if it is still the same, insurance etc was done on BHP not engine size The only difference in the high and low power engines is the profile of the cam shaft, the low power camshaft is identified by a G stamped on the flange Yes just German market
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Post by stefanb on Nov 10, 2023 5:18:57 GMT
Pete, that's right. Until the end of the 1980s, manufacturers in Germany voluntarily limited their performance. As you said, this had less to do with the engine capacity and more to do with the relatively high insurance premiums. There were performance classes of 17 HP, 27 HP, up to 50 HP and over 50 HP. At 100 hp it was over. However, increasingly fewer and fewer adhered to it. At first, the machines “spread up” their performance or the manufacturers’ throttling was easy to circumvent. For example, my Kawasaki ZXR 750 R (H1) from 1989 was only throttled to 100 hp via additional bars in the carburator that limited the travel of the sliders. My dealer delivered it with the original covers and then "illegal" 114 HP. The CB 250 with 17 hp was just very slow. A little better with 27 hp, but the majority of people preferred the 400 with 27 hp. In this respect, a CB 250N with 27 hp is rather rare in Germany. Today that is history. A BMW M S1000 RR with 210 hp is completely legal...and expensive to insure :-) At the time, not sure if it is still the same, insurance etc was done on BHP not engine size The only difference in the high and low power engines is the profile of the cam shaft, the low power camshaft is identified by a G stamped on the flange Yes just German market
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Post by BritPete on Nov 10, 2023 8:29:31 GMT
Pete, that's right. Until the end of the 1980s, manufacturers in Germany voluntarily limited their performance. As you said, this had less to do with the engine capacity and more to do with the relatively high insurance premiums. There were performance classes of 17 HP, 27 HP, up to 50 HP and over 50 HP. At 100 hp it was over. However, increasingly fewer and fewer adhered to it. At first, the machines “spread up” their performance or the manufacturers’ throttling was easy to circumvent. For example, my Kawasaki ZXR 750 R (H1) from 1989 was only throttled to 100 hp via additional bars in the carburator that limited the travel of the sliders. My dealer delivered it with the original covers and then "illegal" 114 HP. The CB 250 with 17 hp was just very slow. A little better with 27 hp, but the majority of people preferred the 400 with 27 hp. In this respect, a CB 250N with 27 hp is rather rare in Germany. At the time, not sure if it is still the same, insurance etc was done on BHP not engine size The only difference in the high and low power engines is the profile of the cam shaft, the low power camshaft is identified by a G stamped on the flange Yes just German market That confirms my understanding A 17hp can be upgraded to full power simply by changing the cam for a UK sourced one the 400 I sourced from Germany was a 27hp, but comparing it with a 27hp 250 the torque was substantially more, the cruising speed was also higher
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